Let's talk all matters conservatives
with Alex Burkhart, shadow chancellor of
the duche of Lancaster. Great to have
you with us on the program, Mr.
Burkhart. Thanks for coming on. Let's
start with this this announcement from
uh your party leader Kimmy Bade no or an
announcement that we're told will be
made this week. You are going to extract
all the remaining oil and gas from the
North Sea. What more can you tell us
about how you'll do that? Yeah. So where
KBY has uh so KBY gave very important
speech earlier in the year saying that
net zero by 2050 uh was unachievable and
had to be said in the context of uh the
US and China the two world the world's
two largest economies uh not pursuing
net zero that we were in danger of uh
running down our economy putting
additional costs on businesses and
families and public services uh by uh
not using our own um uh oil and gas and
uh And so what she's going to say in
this this week coming is that we will
use the resources in the North Sea
rather than importing oil and gas from
uh foreign countries uh and also to uh
help create jobs in places like Abedine
uh and to try and uh drive down uh
energy costs for uh you for everyone in
the UK uh in stark contrast to what's
happening under this government where
energy bills are are going up and up and
up despite the promise to uh before the
election that Labor would bring them
down by by 300.
>> It was your party that brought in the
net zero targets.
>> It was it was and that was that was in a
different context. Uh there was a hope
well so there was a hope originally that
uh the the very big economies of the
world like the US and China and India
would uh would sign up to this as well.
But in the absence of them doing that
what's actually happening is that uh
that those countries uh have uh much
lower energy costs and are doing much
better. and our country is uh at at risk
of being uh being left behind. So the
the context so the context has changed.
>> So because Ping and Donald Trump have
turned their back on the importance of
tackling climate change, we might as
well do the same thing.
>> So well when when you uh recognize that
I think we
>> when we account for less than 1% of
global emissions, uh yeah, you'll see
that without those big countries uh
changing course, our impact is
incredibly negligible. And you're
talking about
you're talking about fractions of 1%.
Now, we're not saying we're saying that
in the long run, of course, we're going
to uh decarbonize um uh uh power
generation.
>> Too late, won't it? The scientists say
it's too late. The scientists say we
need to act now.
>> Whilst we're whilst we're building the
next generation of uh for example,
nuclear power stations, uh we're not
going to cut our nose off to spite our
face. We're not going to say we're not
going to use we're not going to we're
not going to use British oil and gas
whilst we're going for the the fuels and
the economies of tomorrow rather than
relying on the
but obviously as you know you can do
obviously you can you can do that at the
same time as you're using your own oil
and gas and to import oil and gas from
other countries whilst you're doing it
just seems to me incredibly
wrong-headed. So I this is this is a
win-win situation. Firstly, it gives us
cheaper energy whilst we're uh
>> it's not win-win for the planet, is it
then?
>> Whilst we're uh whilst we're preparing
for uh a decarbonized future, we get to
use our own oil and gas rather than
other countries. We get to we get to
Sorry, can I finish the sentence? I just
now I'm just going to finish the
sentence because you've interrupted me
three times whilst I've been trying to
finish the sentence. So we get to use
our own oil and gas whilst we're
preparing for the energy transition of
the future. And that will reduce bills
for businesses and for for families and
for public service.
I'm going to pre and also keep jobs
here.
>> You said it's win-win. It's not win-win
for the planet. It's not win-win for the
next generation. It's lose-lose, isn't
it? Because what you are doing or what
Kemn is doing this week is completely
abdicating the UK of all virtually all
its climate change obligations.
>> Uh no, not at U we're not saying uh that
uh we're not going to uh have um uh aim
for a decarbonized future. We're just
talking about the speed at which we're
going to do it and the sources of energy
on which we're going to rely whilst
we're heading in that direction. uh and
uh you know the the alternative is to
have much higher energy costs, fewer
jobs which will be incredibly damaging
to the next generation on top of the
extraordinarily high taxes that this
government have put this young people
that this government has it won't
>> well okay well you you uh I think you'll
find that there are a lot of
right-leaning uh young people in this
country who would uh who would
absolutely take issue with that and
there are a lot of people in the young
people in this country who are worried
about jobs and businesses and their
futures in that regard and I And I think
you should go and I think that you
should go and talk to them most is
consistently one of the top three. I I
think you'll find that not all young
people are the same and that there are
lots of different groups of young people
of course and and so no and you're
implying that what you're implying in
your statement what you're implying in
your statement is that all young people
feel feel the same way they absolutely
yes when you what you what you said if
you ask young people and that what
you're saying is that those uh that all
young people
>> I didn't say every young person
that was that was the implication of
your state that was the implication of
your statement when you p when you whole
explain there are groups of well there
are groups of young people who feel very
differently about this and care about
the economies in their local area of
energy concept of opinion I'm not I
think you're studying with the language
that you've used
let me explain it to you I don't need to
explain I understand I understand
exactly what you're implying and what
I'm saying to you is that there are
groups of young people who care very
much about jobs and businesses in their
country and want their families to have
lower costs of energy which this policy
You can't provide you can let me
explain.
>> No, I I don't need you to explain it.
I'm here to explain what my party's
policy is and and what what are you
going to let me ask you any questions or
you just going to talk?
>> Are you going to ask Are you going to
ask a question or are you just going to
talk about what you just said?
>> I'm going to ask you I'm going to ask
you a question. Do you accept that
climate change for uh when young people
across the board are pled consistently
comes out as one of the things that they
care most about? And if so, what would
you say to them given they will surely
be concerned about what you're
announcing today? I I'd say to them what
I've already said to you which is that
uh obviously in the long all we're
talking about is the time scale on which
we go to a decarbonized economy and if
we are going to do that in a sensible
moderate way which doesn't undermine
their future in terms of the economy and
of jobs this is the best solution in
that it will uh keep it will it will
generate more jobs in this country and
keep bills down uh and the the
alternative is something that will mean
that there are fewer jobs for them and
more expensive bills for their families.
>> Got your point on that. Let's let's ask
let me let me move on to something else
that Kimmy Badno has said. Um she's
outflanking reform on the issue of
deportations. Even Nigel Farage rode
back on the idea of deporting women and
children who come here on small boats.
Uh chem asked whether she would deport
women and children says of course. Is
that correct?
>> Uh if people have come to this country
illegally, they shouldn't stay here.
>> Women and children as well.
>> If people have come to this country
illegally,
>> they shouldn't stay here. And you you
have to start from you always have to
start from principles on these things
that you it is illegal to come into this
country uh without permission without
using a designated route right uh when
people do that they should expect the
starting point should be that those
people
>> just a very clear answer to my question
that includes women and children I've
I've given you a clear answer to that
question.
>> Well you didn't say yes or no. Yes it
does include women and children. Would
that include sending them to places like
Afghanistan, Sudan and others where they
face gender-based violence and
persecution? uh it would very much
depend on uh the arrangements that uh
future government puts in place with
third countries such as Rwanda.
>> Right. So you wouldn't send them back to
countries like the Taliban rally?
>> I think it's I think it's very unlikely
that we would ever have a deal with uh
the Taliban. Uh I think it's very
unlikely that we would have a deal with
Iran uh or Atraa. Uh but that doesn't
mean that you can't have third country
process. You would send them to another
country.
>> Uh which is what? Yeah. Uh we would we
would send people to another country if
they've crossed the country. that sort
of compassionate conservatism deporting
women and children who have come here
seeking the first comfortable the first
thing look none of this is comfortable
um it's I'd rather none of this was
happening at all but the fact of the
matter is we have very large numbers of
people crossing crossing into the
country illegally and you have to have a
deterrent and what this government has
done is remove the deterrent that we
left in place uh at the last general
election and the consequence is we now
have far more people crossing into this
country illegally than ever before we
need to bring that deterrent back and
once once a good deterrent is in place
as we saw uh in Australia uh about 10
years ago once once so just I'll just
finish I promise it short uh once you
have a good deterrent in place far fewer
people will make that journey in the
first place
>> and and you're comfortable that people
in this country that the the law-abiding
British public tolerant open
compassionate people that we are will be
happy with the conservative government
deporting thousands upon thousands of
women
>> I think everybody I think no firstly
there aren't thousands upon thousands of
people uh there would be over the course
of a parliament there are no no There
are the vast vast majority of people
crossing the channel illegally are
working age men and don't please do not
create the impression that there are
thousands and thousands of women and
children crossing over on dingies over
the course of a part
you would have to so know what I'm
saying is when you have a deterrent in
place the number of people crossing
drops right down and so you don't
actually have to deport many people at
all the important thing is to show that
you have a meaningful deterrent which is
effective and that changes the way in
the smuggling gangs work. It breaks
their business model. Uh and so actually
you don't need to deport very many
people at all.
>> Okay, understood. One more issue I
wanted to get your thoughts on. Um you
Miss Burkart are calling for an
investigation uh this morning into
Angela Raina, your party is as well in
relation to her housing affairs. What do
you think she might have done wrong?
>> So um my understanding is that uh Angela
Raina may have um sought to avoid um uh
paying uh stamp duty on her primary uh
primary residence and there's going to
be an investigation into that. I think
it's best we let the investigation deal
with. But I think what's really what the
subtext of this story is is that uh you
probably have people within the Labour
party who are uh starting to brief
against each other. We've seen
>> whereas that would never happen in your
party, Mr.
>> Uh I know that this is politics, but
you're aware of unity. What's uh what's
emerging now uh as K Star's leadership
gets into trouble and people start talk
about Angela Raina as his possible
successor is that people in the Labour
party are starting to brief against
Angela Raina. We know that Angela Raina
is trying to uh is considering putting
an amendment in one of her bills that
would make it uh impossible for Andy
Burnham to come back as a member of
parliament in the greater Manchester
area to do with their housing affairs.
>> Uh as I say uh people are I suspect that
people within the Labour party are
leaking information about Angela Raina.
because they don't want her to take over
from it that you think she might have
done wrong.
>> So I I just said that the implication is
that she may have sought to avoid paying
stamp duty on her primary residence and
that's what's uh that that's what's
being investigated.
>> The implication I've seen is that there
no rules were broken. Is that is that
your understanding as well, Miss Burkov?
>> Uh I if there is an investigation then
there is obviously a suggestion that
something has been uh something may have
been done wrong and that's what's being
looked into. And you think she might
have what broken the law potentially
around around stamp duty?
>> Uh no. I think that what she may have
done is uh um uh avoided uh sought to
avoid uh paying uh taxally on her
primary residence. Yeah. In a uh in a
way that was uh inconsistent with uh
what she was expected to do as um as
Secretary of State.
>> So So if you're basically suggesting
even you don't think she's broken any
laws, what is the point of having an
investigation if she's done nothing
technically wrong? see whether she's
broken the ministerial code. The
ministerial code is different to the
law.
>> What under the ministerial code might
she have done wrong in relation to stamp
duty.
>> So there are a whole series of um uh um
uh ethical uh request ethical
expectations uh of ministers within uh
the ministerial code uh and an
investigation will establish whether in
uh taking herself off the deeds of her
primary residence she uh has broken any
of those expectations.
>> Really appreciate your time this
morning. Thank you for coming on. Alex
Burkart, shadow chancellor of the duchy
of Lancaster, must tell you that Angela
Raina's team insist this morning uh they
deny the allegations and say once again
that no wrongdoing has taken